'Widow's Bay' Team Teases the Future of Apple TV's Stephen King-Inspired Series

Summary Collider's Steve Weintraub talks with Widow's Bay star Matthew Rhys, creator Katie Dippold, and executive producer and director Hiro Murai.

In this interview, the trio takes us behind the scenes for series inspiration, from Sam Raimi to FX's Atlanta, and how Rhys approached Mayor Tom Loftis.

They also discuss the potential for a Season 2 and what that will mean for the series.

We’re nearing the end of the first season of Apple TV’s near-perfect supernatural series, Widow’s Bay, and fans are eager for what’s coming next. Already, the show has garnered high praise from the masterful Guillermo del Toro and drawn comparisons to the king of horror himself, Stephen King. For a streamer that’s staked its claim as the leading sci-fi television, Katie Dippold’s horror comedy not only proves Apple TV’s dedication to stellar storytelling across the board but also to meticulous attention to high-quality in all departments.

Recently, Collider’s Steven Weintraub had the pleasure of moderating an exclusive panel with Dippold, executive producer and director Hiro Murai, and star Matthew Rhys after a special event screening of Episode 3, “The Inaugural Swim.” With the penultimate episode, “Emergency Shelter,” set to premiere this week, don’t miss the full conversation in the video above or in the transcript below for our behind-the-scenes discussion, where Dippold shares the initial inspiration for Widow’s Bay, Murai explains how his previous hit series, Atlanta, helped find the balance between these two genres, and Rhys shares his approach to Mayor Tom Loftis’s exasperation on the haunted New England island. The trio also look ahead to a potential Season 2, what lessons they’ll carry with them, and why Rhys can’t wait to continue the story.

Guillermo del Toro Is Raving About Apple TV's 'Widow’s Bay'

Creator Katie Dippold also explains why the show resonates so much with audiences.

Matthew Rhys gripping a bag and staring dully ahead in Widow's Bay Image via Apple TV

COLLIDER: Widow’s Bay is exploding right now. What do you think it is about the series that's resonating with so many people? What is it like when Guillermo del Toro starts raving about it on Twitter?

KATIE DIPPOLD: That was thrilling. I was out to dinner, and I walked out, and my phone had just blown up like there was some terrible accident or something, and then I saw it was about to tweet, and it lived up to the expectation. It was so exciting. He's such a hero. He's such an authentic… I think he's just what's good about show business and Hollywood. He's just so creative, and just the way he lives, like the stories about how his house and his office set up is. I'm a big fan, big fan, so that was a real treat for us all.

What do you think it is about the show that's resonating with so many people right now? I want to point out that it's number one on Apple TV. There's so much buzz on it. What do you think it is that's connecting with people?

DIPPOLD: Matthew? [Laughs]

MATTHEW RHYS: That's not for me. That's for the adults!

DIPPOLD: Honestly, I think one thing that was both exciting and terrifying to us is that we had no idea how it would land with people.

HIRO MURAI: That’s kind of a tough question to answer for us, but I think the thing we kept keying into is we know what it feels like for terrible things to keep happening over and over again, and then you kind of get to this, like, numbed-out state.

RHYS: It’s called Hollywood.

MURAI: Yeah. [Laughs] And there's something about that that felt baked into the show that was really real and resonant. But it's not like you're aiming for it to land a certain way. You're just kind of trying to do the best version of the show you can.

DIPPOLD: I also feel like, I don't know, it feels like life has felt like a bit of a nightmare for a while, and I think it's watching this character go through a nightmarish experience. I don't know if that's what's pulling people in. I'm not sure, honestly.

So someone online called Widow's Bay the funniest supernatural horror Stephen King never wrote. I'm just curious what your reaction to that is.

DIPPOLD: Oh, that's a dream description. Stephen King, I feel like he's a main figure in all of our lives, just what he's done and what he's built. Being able to try to live in that world was really a goal, that atmosphere.

How 'Widow's Bay' Found Its Unique Horror-Comedy Tone

"To be honest, I actually don't like most horror comedies..."

Image via Apple TV

When you're building a town like Widow's Bay, what comes first: the mythology, the characters, or the weird local rules?

DIPPOLD: The characters. In the writers' room, we approached it from different angles, but it definitely started with character. Well, okay, that's not true. Honestly, I wanted a haunted island to exist off the coast in New England. I really wished that there would be a world that I would take a ferry to and just this strange island, and feel like there are nooks and crannies to discover and little different terrifying stories and different places. That's just something I wished to exist, but then you can't do that unless you then focus on the characters living there. So, characters are most important, but a little haunted island is how it starts.

One of the trickiest things to do in anything, especially in a show like this, is the tone and finding the right balance. Can you talk about getting the right tone and finding the tone in the editing room and when you were on set, and same with you when you're doing the performance?

DIPPOLD: It was constant trial and error. I spent a long time figuring it out. To be honest, I actually don't like most horror comedies. I have my favorites like American Werewolf in London, Cabin in the Woods, and Shaun of the Dead, and Sam Raimi movies, and those are all very different from each other. But other than those, for the most part, I feel like you're neither laughing or scared, you know? So, it's tricky.

So, I was trying to find a way to make sure the scary never feels silly, so it doesn't feel like a spoof, and then also being brutal on the jokes. Like, there could be a joke that would make us laugh so hard in the writers’ room, but if it felt like it was going to take away from the story, we just have to cut it. So, it was a lot of being really strict on stuff like that. Then it was a lot of feeling it out on set, what felt right and what didn't.

MURAI: The script was so funny, and it's clearly also very scary, but when we started talking, I think the most important thing and it was very clear that we just needed to be real and grounded and character-first, so the horror and the comedy of it can just sit on this real kind of baked world.

A lot of that, the execution of that, came from performance and casting. You watch this show now, and you kind of take for granted that Matthew is sort of inhabiting this world and telling you how to watch the show in a really naturalistic way, but if it were any other actor, it would tip your understanding of the show in a different way. So, it was an ongoing conversation, and as we got this group together, it became clearer and clearer what the tone of the show needed to be.

Image via Trent Barboza

RHYS: You kind of, from the get-go, said, “Look, we're going to create a very real world with real people, real backstories, real situations. You play it for real, and that's it.” It was kind of an emancipation of tone then because I was like, “Okay, you do tone with music and editing and cinematography, and we'll just play it for real.” But it did. It was a great relief to hear you say that.

There is truly no one better than him. What you never did was refer to tone. You always advanced the next take by giving the most laser-specific notes or questions about where should the next part go. So, you're constantly staying active about the scene, as opposed to being taken away by what tone was. And then he also said, “If you get the tone wrong, I'll fucking kill you.”

MURAI: I do remember saying that. Yeah, yeah.

DIPPOLD: Yeah, you would shout, “Funnier, please.” [Laughs] He did not do that, I swear.

Katie, your background is heavily rooted in iconic workplace comedy. You worked on Parks & Rec. So, if Mayor Tom Loftis had to deal with a sudden, aggressive town hall visit from Leslie Knope or Ron Swanson while a supernatural fog is rolling into Widow's Bay, who cracks first?

DIPPOLD: Oh, God, that's a great question. God, I don't think any of them would give up, you know what I mean? In different ways. First of all, that scene would be very strange. I kind of think, for different reasons, none of them would give up.

MURAI: I agree.

How 'Atlanta' Helped Shape the Horror-Comedy Style of Apple TV's 'Widow's Bay'

"The cinema that they bring to this show is so crazy and beyond my wildest dreams."

Donald Glover in Atlanta Image via FX

When you go in and pitch Apple on the show, and they're getting ready to make it, how much do they want to know that you have, like, a three-season plan, or that you have an overarching storyline, and how much is it like, “Let's just make one awesome season and see where it goes?”

DIPPOLD: I talked them through the first season. We talked a lot about how it would feel. I told him where I saw this season going and how I saw it ending, and gave examples of things that would happen along the way. Then, we spoke about what the show in general meant to us and where we could see it ending, but that was about it. I mean, it sounds like a lot, but it was in a five-minute pitch, so it wasn’t too detailed.

Hiro, you directed the first three and the last two. In the first three, you're obviously finding the visual aesthetic. The Director of Photography, Christian Sprenger, you've worked with many times. Can you talk about coming up with the visual aesthetic for the show and setting the tone and everything for everyone?

MURAI: I’ve worked with Christian for over a decade at this point. I always joke that I have more photos of Christian on my phone than of my wife, because we've been on set in so many different places. I think our approach for everything is kind of what we talked about with tone and performance, too. We just want to feel like we're in a real place first and foremost, especially when the content can be kind of absurd or heightened, and then you just want to find a base level to walk in on.

He's just so good at finding locations and lighting in a way that feels of the world. There's nothing really artificial about the way he approaches it, but he also knows how to play up the emotions of the scene. So, he'll kind of supplement a close-up with a little bit of ambient light just to punctuate a certain emotional beat, but he's got a really light touch.

Some of this stuff that we're doing on this show, we kind of played around with on our show, Atlanta, where we played a little bit of comedy-horror, and we really enjoyed the process of playing with those two levers. Because I think they both play with tension building and puncturing, and so it becomes a game of, like, you stay on this set-up longer than you want to, so you as an audience are starting to feel a little weird about it, and then when you cut to the other side, it gives a release valve. So, these are things that we came in wanting to play with, and then we just kind of fleshed it out on the show.

DIPPOLD: Can I just say too, as a comedy writer, the cinema that they bring to this show is so crazy and beyond my wildest dreams for this show. It's very fun to have a half-hour comedy show look the way they made it. It's really crazy. So I'm very, very grateful for that.

I completely agree with what you said. This is one of those rare shows where everything works across the board.

Matthew Rhys Tackles a Career First in 'Widow's Bay'

"I've never done anything like it."

Image via Apple TV

Matthew, how much of Tom's deadpan exasperation is meticulous acting and how much is it just your genuine reaction to reading the scripts?

RHYS: A little bit of both, and just exasperation with the people I had to act with, an awful troupe. No, especially in the town hall, there are so many comedy Olympiads in this that you really need to let those people do it. Tom is kind of alone in many ways, and so I wanted to make him feel as if he's the only person going through these things. So, he's exasperated not only, obviously, by the scripts, but I just wanted to, at times, isolate him in a way where he's just like, “Jesus Christ, if only I had an ally on this mad island.” But also, it was just so much fun to do.

Your performance in this is just fantastic. You've done a lot of drama, but I've never seen you do physical comedy the way that you do in an upcoming episode. What is it like for you when you're reading the script and you see what you're about to go through?

RHYS: I've never done anything like it. I'd never read anything like this before. We talked earlier about what it was, and why is it this now? I'd never read anything like this before, which is partly, I think, why it’s — it's very unwell to say it's doing so well, but it’s doing so well. I think it's singularly unique.

To go back to physical comedy, I did grow up watching Harold Lloyd. I was obsessed with Harold Lloyd, and so, as much as it terrified me because it's not something I’d done, I think when you read it, you go, oh my God, that's going to take a certain degree of… I don't want to use “slapstick” because it always has to remain somewhere very real. It's frightening, and we would find it. We'd play around and experiment, and sometimes it was too broad, and sometimes the stunt coordinator would tell me off, and then we’d try and find somewhere in the middle that was real.

Image via Trent Barboza

DIPPOLD: Can I just say, I think he's one of the greatest actors of all time. I really do. He really is. He's going to hate this so much. He's going to hate this, but he's truly one of the greatest actors of all time. But also, he's so funny, but he doesn't ever try to be funny because he knows what funny is, and he has pitch-perfect comedic timing. So, he's being very kind talking about the scripts, but I just can't imagine the show working without him.

I agree. I actually want to dig in a little bit more with your performance because I've always loved your work. When you have a big scene coming up on a Monday, something that might take a lot out of you, or physical comedy, whatever it is, what is it like in the days leading up to a day that you have circled on the calendar, knowing it's going to be a really big day? Are you spending extra time reading lines or practicing?

RHYS: At home it’s like this, “I've got a big day on Monday! Shut up! No one understands! Christ!” That's what the lead-up is. That’s where this physical comedy comes from.

Inside 'Widow’s Bay's Most Ambitious Episode Stunt Yet

Ex-SEALs, scuba teams, and sharks had Rhys wondering, "The fuck are we doing in the water?"

Image via Apple TV

Katie, how did you decide what the show's rules would be in terms of figuring out the line of “How weird can we get?”

DIPPOLD: In terms of the horror, it felt like the fog was a nice entry point because it fits the New England setting, and then it was just thinking of things that would scare us, but were fitting to the island. Like, I would believe that there is an inn that has centuries of terrible history there, like a hag makes sense. You know what I mean? I just feel like there will be some kind of hag on this island. Then it starts to branch out a bit and go in different places, but it felt like trying to slowly lure people in.

I mentioned it earlier, but the set design on this show is just incredible, like the hilarious newspapers and the historical society, the bizarre games in the hotel in Episode 2. Can you talk about working with the set designers and the production design teams in bringing all that to life? Because I really think some of that stuff just adds so much to the show and elevates everything.

DIPPOLD: I have to say, in the room, we’d pitch the comedy board games, and we'd have them all down, but then it goes to this other level. I don't think the script mentioned anything about the little pieces with the newspaper and the bat. My favorite thing about the Daddy's Home board game was that I always imagined just kind of an angry dad, but [Hiro] had pitched that more bewildered face, which I think is the funniest detail.

MURAI: We had a lot of fun working on this because it's so lovingly crafted in the script. The execution was even more fun because we had all these artists and artisans getting to enjoy it, too. We keep talking about it, this set is the most detailed set I've ever been on. Every single piece of board game toy, like you’ve spoken about it as an actor, you sometimes would open a drawer, and there would be nothing in there, but in this world, each drawer was custom-built for the character. So, there's just a lot of love and care in the details.

DIPPOLD: We had a really great production design team who were just absolute maniacs in the best way and just put so much into it. There's a lot of care, and it was a really great group.

I love learning about the behind-the-scenes of a show or a movie that you can't read on Wikipedia or in the press notes. For each of you, what's something you'd love to share or let everyone know about the making of the show? Any surprises? Any cool behind-the-scenes stories?

RHYS: We had to sign a lot of NDAs, so this is quite tough, especially about Jeff Hiller and Dale Dickey getting in a fist fight.

DIPPOLD: [Laughs] This is a weird story, but you know what was a fun moment? I remember when Jeff got nominated for his Emmy in the middle of shooting the season. I was in my office, but I had a monitor on, and the monitor was on standby on Stephen [Root] and Kate [O’Flynn], and I could hear someone introduce, “Oh, Emmy-nominated Jeff Hiller,” and I could see Stephen and Kate so happy for him and cheering for him. This is a weird story, but I remember I was so moved by it. They just looked so happy for him. You know what I mean? It was so sweet. And I'm like, “Oh, these lovely actors that are supporting each other!” That's a weird story to bring up, but it really stuck.

Image via Trent Barboza

RHYS: It was one of the happiest experiences I've ever had. Really, really deep, deep crying, laughing, directors going, “Please, can you focus?” We’re like, “Yes, yes, sorry!”

MURAI: I have one. When we first started doing the first block, how you would usually work with actors is you shoot the scene, and if you needed to shoot inserts, the actor doesn't necessarily have to do the motion, like, if you're getting a shot of someone writing or typing or something. But Matthew was really adamant that he does all of his own insert work because he wanted his physicality and hand in there, and I was just like, “What? Why are you so dedicated to the small things?” And he goes, “Well, there's a show I did one time where I just kind of did the scene, and then they told me that they were going to get someone else to do the hands of typing on a computer, and so I left. Then later on, I saw the show, and they cut to me typing, and then they showed the hands, and he's going like…” [flails hands].

RHYS: I'll tell you what the show was. It was the last, ever, Colombo. That's not a lie. And I was robbed by the typing hands.

DIPPOLD: I really wanted to do a prank where we did a fake insert shot in one of the episodes to show to you, but we just didn't have that kind of time.

RHYS: Good.

That's called Season 2, I think.

DIPPOLD: Also, one of my fondest memories was shooting “The Inaugural Swim” because the production was so crazy. It's a very ambitious show, and watching Hiro in the wetsuit in the water with another camera in the water, and you have a scuba team for disaster, and you having to swim back and forth, and I'm standing perfectly fine in my normal clothes, I'm like, “Oh, this is a big ordeal. This is a real thing.” That was exciting.

RHYS: They're all ex-SEALs, and so we're all in the water, and I said, “So there are no sharks here?” And they went, “Oh yeah, there’s sharks.” I was like, “The fuck are we doing in the water?”

Matthew Rhys Says He Was Contending With "Improv Olympiads"

"I don't stand a chance here. This isn't fair."

Matthew, what was the most fun part of playing someone who's constantly trying to be rational in increasingly irrational situations?

RHYS: It's the reactions of others. The fun part as a human being, not an actor in this project, was being so amped up, and then you're looking at Dale Dickey looking at you, and she's open-mouth coughing. That was the fun. It was the reactions of these people around me that just made it very hard to do. Then you had real improv Olympiads like Neil Casey, who were in a two-shot or a wide, and he's off, and you're like, “I don't stand a chance here. This isn't fair.” It's like sprinting against Usain Bolt. It's like, “I can't do this.” That was the joy of it, watching those people fly.

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DIPPOLD: I just remember Neil was trying to do something because when you shot Neil coming out of the room, there was some divide of time between that bit and the conversation downstairs before you go up. He was trying to either lose or gain weight between the two weeks so when he came out of the room, it looked like he had put on weight. [Laughs] He really was trying his best to do that.

MURAI: I did not know that. That's really funny.

Image via Apple TV

DIPPOLD: Another favorite Neil Casey thing is in Episode 4. This doesn’t spoil anything, but Neil Casey's supposed to be eating these deviled eggs, and the director of [Episode] 4 had to have Neil keep eating. He must have eaten 14 deviled eggs.

RHYS: He's like Cool Hand Luke.

DIPPOLD: And there is not one single shot of him eating a deviled egg in the episode. [Laughs]

That actually leads me to a question that I'm curious about. Everything changes in the editing room. It's the final rewrite. How did this show possibly change in the editing room in ways you guys didn't expect?

DIPPOLD: God, there was always more to find. You know what I mean? We were always finding it, like there's a rhythm. The process of finding the tone was from beginning to end, I would say.

MURAI: Yeah. It's not a show where the structure of the story changed much in the edit. I think the scripts are always really tight, and there was a clear progression in the story. The things that changed were these microscopic rhythm and timing stuff that really affected the tone and flow of the scenes.

DIPPOLD: Sometimes there'd be big cuts. Sometimes I forget. Like [Episode] 4, for example, has a couple of nights before… You know what I mean?

MURAI: That's right. That's right. People have kind of blacked it all out.

DIPPOLD: Yeah, yeah, yeah. The scripts are, say, 36 pages long, and Maria [Mantia], our first A.D., would be like, “These are not 36 pages long.” You know what I mean? It always took much longer, so that was a whole thing.

Matthew Rhys Teases Big Changes Ahead for Tom in 'Widow's Bay' Season 2

"I have horns, I have a goatee, I've got hooves."

Image via Apple TV

Assuming you guys get to make a Season 2, which I'm confident you will have a Season 2, what were the big lessons for each of you that you learned making the first season? Because in the first season, you're figuring out how to make the show. What were some of the big things you learned that you'll take with you into a second season?

DIPPOLD: That's a good question. I don't know if I have specific examples, but it was a process of learning, because we would constantly on set look at each other and be like, “Does this feel right? Does this feel bad? Does this feel good?” And so I feel like by the end of it, you just sort of learned what works and what doesn't. So, I'm hopeful, and I may be jinxing it, but I think there'd be a little less trial and error. But maybe that's wrong. I don't know if you felt like that.

MURAI: I think that’s right. Season 1 is impossible.

DIPPOLD: Yes.

MURAI: You're making the plane as you're flying it. It's crazy. It's crazy. Also, the thing about TV shows is that you're putting the people together, and you hope that it all takes on a life of its own. The actors start riffing off each other, you know your dynamic, and there's a very organic sense of play there. So by the end of it, I feel like we had a really good grasp of what the show should be in a way that we didn't when we started.

DIPPOLD: I totally agree.

RHYS: It's not quite the question, but what I'm more excited about is where we leave off at the end of Season 1. The difference for Tom in Season 2 will be that much greater, and that's what I'm excited about, is going, “Oh my God, where does he go from there?” Because he's changed. I have horns, I have a goatee, I've got hooves. It's brilliant. But no, that's what I'm kind of more excited about, that you've laid the groundwork, you've done the foundation work, and now that's all embedded in it, and now you can really hopefully take flight.

DIPPOLD: I mean, in some ways, Season 1 feels like a prequel to life on this island.

RHYS: Right, because we've set up so much now that you’re ready to go.

Widow's Bay releases new episodes exclusively on Apple TV every Wednesday.